permit required?

[aspnecade]

According to Electrical Safety Regulation 18 (5)((a,b,c)) it appears that a contractor may make changes to service equipment within these guidelines. Here is an example. An old panel that has breakers that are arcing due to poor internal or buss connections are no longer available. A panel only change is recommended. The existing panel does not have a "main breaker" so a combination panel is to be installed. The supply authority has agreed that this is an emergency repair and would not require any changes to existing service. Would you take out a permit? What changes would you make to the installation? ie ensure proper system grounding, bonding of old kitchen receptacles that have no bonding etc. What would be the minimum required work that would still qualify the work under the above rules? I have recently come across a job where some contractors choose to do the work "hot" to avoid connection/disconnection fees and no permit. Only the panel is changed with no work to grounding etc. It is hard to compete with quotes when some choose to follow rules while others try to work a way around them in order to come up with the job. Is not the safety of the homeowners electrical installation most important? What do you think?

[pilot]

hello aspencade
I am very interested in finding out where i can get a copy of the regulation that you have stated.
as I am not familular with this regulation , but you do bring up a good point.at what stage must a permit be required? (when you screw in a light bulb?)
(or changing a fuse,$107.00 plus the cost of fuse and labour ,to charge a customer for a fuse is little bit much) don't you think?

[aspnecade]

Pilot:

The regulation is the one that was recently adopted (March 2004)for the Province of BC. It is the Safety Standards Act. The question you raise is delt with to a certain degree in section 18 and 19. This act, along with the Canadian Electrical Code and the B.C.provicial ammendments to the Canadian Electrical Code, form the code for application in B.C.

[bigrockk]

Aspencade:

Well I definitely agree that the safety of the homeowners' electrical installation is most important.
I would always pull a permit for this type of work. It seems to me that these days it is extremely important to exercise "due diligence" when conducting any type of business, just in case you end up defending yourself in a legal situation. I haven't had to defend myself yet but I always like to keep in the back of my mind, "could I if I had to".

When I was contracting, and making up customer quotes I would try to explain everything that was included in the quote, I would let them know I was pulling a permit and sometimes explain to them why this was important. I would try and explain to them why I would be doing the work I was doing. I also would let them know that if they received any quotes much lower than mine I would be more than happy to discuss the differences with them.
This approach didn't always work, sometimes I didn't get the job, but when I did I knew that I would be able to walk away from the job feeling good about.

I think you would have to be nuts to do a panel change live.
My first year as an apprentice I worked with a guy who used to do this for panel changes. We worked for a large company in Ontario during the week and he would line up "side jobs" to do on the weekend.He didn't want to pull permits so he would do the panel change live.He would not pull the meter as this would "break the seal".I helped him a couple of times and then opted out of the weekend work.It scared the c rap out of me then and the thought of it still does!!!